fall turkey
NY Fall Turkey Season In Decline?
The Fat Lady has sung for the New York second season covering most of the southern tier region. Unless I get hooked up for a hunt for the 3rd season on Long Island coming up, the turkeys are safe for a few months, until May rolls around again. The last time I filled a fall tag in New York was back in 2015. It is most certainly not due to a lack of opportunities, in fact just the opposite. The truth of it is I had opportunities each year since, and would come up in range for a shot opportunity or could easily set up a plan on a fresh sighting and march forward with battle operations either with our beloved Weimaraners, who both have now passed over the rainbow bridge or could set up near a roost the following morning based on timely intel.
With the lack of sightings covering large areas, and many options of parcels to hunt, including fantastic state lands that have been great each spring season, I opted not to fill a tag on a jake, jenny, or a hen in flocks I did find and were no more than 5-10 birds in the flock. A flock of gobblers, say a half dozen or more would be fair game, but as witnessed, a couple here or there wasn’t rising to the occasion given how depressed the population is currently and the decline of recent years.
Before you draw any conclusions or respond hastily, my comments are at best anecdotal commentary. There is no scientific observation or proof of authority suggested, not by my intentions. It is one data point covering a specific set of parcels, my travels, and it is assumed Murphy is riding shotgun and thwarting my best efforts to spot them at will. Not seeing much for scratching’s or scat you would find in known roost areas. I know of other hunters in different regions who report decent sightings and are successful when all is said and done. For the past nine fall seasons, the scouting has shown little promise for flocks large enough to want to take a turkey out of. I still hunt the fall turkey seasons in New York, and as of late, it is more like catch and release without the ballistic event or just wading in the stream.
As I wrangle out my thinking here, It might be a thought to hunt them with a camera and satisfy my driven tradition of hunting fall turkeys. I will hold any opinion of what the past two years are looking to add up to once I do my winter scouting and hopefully will get more up-to-date data from the NYSDEC.
-MJ
© 2023 Mike Joyner- Joyner Outdoor Media
The Dilemma of Wild Turkey Records
Early on while conducting research for New York State Wild Turkey Records, it became evident that collecting the necessary data, tracking down possible records, and weeding out ghost stories of monster gobblers would not be a small task or an exact science. The abilities of turkey hunters to spin tall tales are as legendary as that of any fisherman.
The common issue in vetting any prospective entry; the weight of trophy gobblers is seldom accurate and is suspect in many unvetted circumstances. In most cases, spurs and beards can be retrieved, and a ruler applied. In pursuit of gathering an accurate as possible representation of trophy gobblers in the empire state, there are several hurdles to overcome, and I’ll have a request for your help in gathering additional data. The following describes some of the difficulties:
- Many hunters do not enter their birds into the NWTF system.
- Submission fee, not an NWTF member.Do not take the time to enter, or unless the gobbler is ranked high.
- Simply not interested in records
- NYSDEC does not maintain a database for recognizing trophy gobblers. They do log coarse data from required tag reporting. Unfortunately, the data is collected in broad increments, honor system only.
- Possible records are word of mouth and unverifiable.
- Overestimated and unverifiable body weights
- No definitive records are found prior to 1969.
- Prior to modern hunting seasons establish after the successes of conservation restoration efforts, post-market hunting era, very little distinction was given to the differences between jakes and gobblers with both referred to as gobblers.
Without a statewide system or database available that records trophy gobblers, one can only chase down reported stories, and contest results, and look to a national database for data. Currently, the NWTF record system for accessing trophy gobblers and merged data collated at turkey-talk.com are the only databases available.
During the exercise of parsing records by county, Cayuga, Franklin, Fulton, Genesee, Hamilton, Lewis, Niagara, Rockland, Warren, and Westchester have very few record entries or none thus far. In reviewing data that spans over three decades, the overall estimated harvest number in the state surpasses 1.4 million birds, with over twelve hundred records known, It is desired to have all the counties well represented and assume with good reason that many high-scoring gobblers can be found in all the huntable counties within the state. It is requested that if so inclined, register your gobbler with the NWTF or directly with the book project “Empire State Limb Hangers”. Although the NWTF database is duly recognized, it is not a requirement for inclusion in this records book project and future updated editions.
It is acknowledged that there are many gobblers taken in the great empire state that are not recorded which would easily ratchet the records upward. If it were possible to track down and verify a fraction of the stories, the rankings would be significantly affected. This essentially is the dilemma.
It is important to note that this project was initially started in 2008, and in all the delays, and life changes that occurred that delayed the books’ completion, active, periodic requests for inclusion, including both individual submissions and turkey contests that could be vetted were published and kept active through websites and social media. With over a decade of open invitations to participate, it is an inevitable aspect of human nature that will have some show up a day late for the party.
For future editions of this book, updates and additions will be based on available database queries from NWTF records database as well as verified gobblers from other sources. As many sportsmen’s clubs are coming online with their websites and publish historical data, it is thought to find additional record entries of notable distinction. I do encourage you to participate and would love to hear your stories.
Useful links
http://www.joyneroutdoormedia.com/elh.html
https://www.nwtf.org/the-lifestyle/turkey-records-home
NYSDEC – Game Harvest Reporting http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/8316.html
https://www.turkey-talk.com/nyrec.html
-MJ
© 2023 Mike Joyner- Joyner Outdoor Media
DEC Finalizes ’22-’23 Wild Turkey Regulations
DEC Finalizes Wild Turkey Hunting Regulations for 2022-2023 seasons. The anticipated changes to open a spring season on Long Island and update shot size changes to include the #9 shot have been approved. Both are long-awaited changes. If you spend any time out on Long Island you will quickly learn they are long overdue for a spring season. One of the few areas of the state not seeing a decline. The shot size change accommodates the popular TSS formulations that are a game changer for small bore shotguns albeit expensive and overdone in traditional 10 and 12-gauge offerings. It will make a huge difference in the performance of your 20-28 gauge and 410 blunderbusses.
From the NYSDEC:
DEC Finalizes Regulations to Expand, Improve Wild Turkey Hunting
Changes Create a New Hunting Opportunity on Long Island and Modernize Hunting Regulations
New York State Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) Commissioner Basil Seggos today announced changes to wild turkey hunting regulations that will provide hunters additional hunting opportunities. The finalized regulation establishes a spring turkey season in Suffolk County in 2023, with a season limit of one bearded bird, and makes #9 shot legal for hunting turkeys statewide during the fall and spring seasons.
“Wild turkeys are a conservation success story in New York and across the United States,” Commissioner Seggos said. “Thanks to DEC’s careful management and restoration programs and the work of our conservation partners since the 1960s, sizable populations of turkeys can now be found in every region of the state. This new regulation will increase opportunities for New York turkey hunters and supports ongoing effective management of this game bird.”
Since the 1990s, the turkey population on Long Island has grown to more than 3,000 birds. In 2009, modern turkey hunting on Long Island began with a five-day fall season and a one-bird bag limit. After DEC established this season and later a two-day, youth-only spring season, area turkey populations continued to increase. Current turkey populations support additional hunting opportunities in the form of a spring season from May 1 through 31, with a bag limit of one bearded bird.
For most turkey hunters, the new spring 2023 season will be the first spring turkey hunting opportunity on Long Island. Spring turkey hunting on Long Island will begin in May 2023 in Suffolk County, Wildlife Management Unit 1C.
In addition, following a public comment period earlier this year, DEC is modernizing statewide turkey hunting regulations by changing the minimum shot size from #8 to #9 for turkey hunting statewide. The change was necessitated by advances in shotshell technology. Previously, shot sizes smaller than #8 (larger number indicates smaller size) were prohibited because they lacked the kinetic energy downrange to humanely harvest a turkey. Modern shotshells use heavier metals such as tungsten alloy, tungsten-iron, or bismuth, maintain enough energy to humanely harvest a turkey, and perform as well or better than many traditional turkey loads. Changes to shot size restrictions apply to both fall and spring seasons and go into effect on Sept. 1, 2022.
For more information about turkey hunting, visit DEC’s website.
-MJ
© 2022 Mike Joyner- Joyner Outdoor Media
A Day With the New Region 9 Director @ Walleye Mecca Destination- Dunkirk, NY
One can easily state any and all ports of access to Lake Erie as the walleye capital of the world. You would be correct, just as the counter declarations of each of your fishing partners. Rather than debate the issue, I’ll lead us into the declaration of Dunkirk as a “must experience” port of launch and a favored choice to pursue a grand fishing experience on Lake Erie. As reported in recent years by myself and the legions of the outdoor media, 2022 walleye season on Lake Erie is consistent with all the observations and claims as a “Walleye Mecca” of prior years. Yes, folks, it’s that good!
This year’s VIP Fish Day, held annually every August, would great us with the mixed clouds, moderate temperatures, and the calmest waters I have ever experienced on the great lake. This year’s event was coordinated by Jim and Diane Steel of the Innovative Outdoors team. A well-organized and super friendly event. Lots of familiar faces and many new ones. The event pairs Charter Captains with outdoor writers, local legislators, business leaders, and members of the NYSDEC Fisheries group. The group of outdoor writers present would hail from Indiana, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Maryland, Ohio, Rhode Island and New York.
Our trip out into the harbor was inspirational for all its beauty and the lake’s calmness. We would be heading out to 60′ – 90′ depths to troll for walleyes that had been, in recent days, hanging near the bottom. Just 30 minutes into setting up the lines, we were already into fish as we started our first trolling run. Although we ran a pattern of depths, those we had out deep with dipsy divers and worm spinner jigs made it happen. The fish-catching started off with Julie landing the first walleye. We both would catch our limit for the day and release others back to the lake. To this day, in my humble opinion, walleye is one of the best fish to eat and is a welcomed treat in our home.
The fishing was fantastic, and the conversation during our trip was even better! Julie comes into her new role as Region 9 Director with an impressive resume. She is as passionate about the resource as any of us. Julie is incredibly excited about the outlook for Lake Sturgeon, which is making significant progress in the North American conservation story. Having a Director that is hands-on and very comfortable with fishing tackle is a good thing for us sportsmen. As I have, you’ll find her very approachable, friendly and knowledgeable. I would also learn that Hans is just as passionate about fishing for muskies and very involved as a board member of the Eastern Lake Erie Charter Boat Association. I can tell you Hans runs an efficient setup and is directly dialed in on walleyes. I can easily envision how he takes his ‘A’ game to muskies. I found Hans to be a great boat captain and super friendly. They are genuinely great people to enjoy time out on the water with. We would discuss many topics concerning the fisheries, future development, and the current issues with proposed windmills. In a few hours on a beautiful morning, all the essential goals of the VIP event were being met on a 21′ boat. The future for Eastern Lake Erie has a bright future, in my view.
The event concluded with a great lunch at the Northern Chautauqua Conservation Club. As in the past, we got updates on issues concerning the lake, the latest research, and the fishery outlook.
It is a beautiful format to promote not only the great fishery and recreational opportunities of the area but also puts the significant stakeholders together in the same room, the same boat, to further the communication needed for developing the resource. The event is fully supported by the following organizations: Chautauqua County Visitors Bureau, Erie County Fisheries Advisory Board and the Eastern Lake Erie Charter Boat Association.
https://www3.erie.gov/environment/fisheries-advisory-board
www.easternlakeeriecharters.com
www.buffaloharboroutfitters.com
-MJ
© 2022 Mike Joyner- Joyner Outdoor Media
#Buffalo Harbor Outfitters, #Chautauqua County Visitors Bureau, #Diane Steel, #Eastern Lake Erie Charter Boat Association, #Hans Mann, #Innovative Outdoors, #Jim Steel, #Julie Barrett O’Neill, #Northern Chautauqua County Conservation Club, #Warrior Boats
NY Counties Est. Wild Turkey Harvest Reports
In further examination of NY State wide harvest reports, https://www.turkey-talk.com/tblog/?p=2368 we’ll look at this by the county-wide macro, all the way back before the observable peaks and what is considered by many to be the heyday of turkeys in nearly every place you might look for them. I ask that you consider this carefully from the larger view, rather than looking at widely varying micro-ecosystems. There is a list of precepts, assumptions, and points to make to take notice of and pay heed to before coming to any conclusions. In comparision to the state wide view, pay particular attention to the numbers as the lower estimated numbers appear to vary widely and can be attributed to many factors that tend to null each other out in a larger, macro scale.
Source data used:
The data from 1999 thru 2021 is sourced from NYSDEC webpages https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/30420.html, https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/30412.html Both pages are captured from previously published versions of the same links. Currently, active published links only go back to 2012.
NYSDEC data from 2006 thru 2021 is estimated harvest data.
https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/30420.html 2008 version published spring harvest data included both reported harvest and estimated harvest for 1999 thru 2005 no such comparison for the fall harvest is found in the search.
NYSDEC data from 1999 thru 2005 is estimated harvest data.
https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/30420.html 2008 version published spring harvest data included both reported harvest and estimated harvest for 1999 thru 2005 no such comparison for the fall harvest is found in the search.
The data from 1990 thru 1998 is sourced from NYSDEC webpages https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/30420.html, https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/30412.html Both pages are captured from previously published versions of the same links.
Precepts:
- All data used to create this is from NYSDEC published reports. All comments made here are not as a representative or authority of the NYSDEC or reviewed. Corrections, and or clarifications are sincerely welcomed to make this as accurate as feasibly possible.
- Estimation factors applied to reported harvest numbers are targeted to realistically represent poaching estimates, harvest reporting participation, and other factors identified by the NYSDEC.
- This is a sub-macro county-wide view. Anecdotally, each of us can cite absolute conclusions from our honey holes, the trash talk at the diners, conversations at the trail heads, etc. Managing the wildlife resource by region is the current method.
- Very few of us hunt more than a few counties any given season and even less are afield throughout the entire year. The extenuating factors to list by towns. public game lands, much less by individual parcels, tracts of land are too many, too varied to digest well enough to rationally get a handle of the widespread landscape of decline.
- The factors derived by the years 1999 through 2005 were averaged out by county and applied to estimate numbers for 1990 thru 1998. NYSDEC has not provided or published factors for these years. The peak factor numbers were not used in my calculations so as to not overstate the peak years. If such factoring data exists it would be much preferred
Observations:
- As the peak years are based only on derived averaged factoring, (1999-2005 Spring Season) it is a conservative estimate that the population is now roughly 20-25% of the peak population year. Some individual counties at first glance appear to be further declined. It will require correlation with license sales in those counties to validate that. What is sustainable year to year is not submitted or asserted here. It is far more complex than the harvest data thus far can suggest.
- The factoring spread among all NY counties (1999-2005 Spring Seasons) ranges from 2.65 to 7.40.
- The average spread among all NY counties (1999-2005 Spring Seasons) ranges from 4.06 to 5.71.
- The averaged factor among all NY counties = 4.57 (1999-2005 Spring Seasons)
- Translation- for every harvest reported. 3.57 turkeys across the Empire State were not reported or taken illegally. It is unclear as to what percentages or other contributors.
Comments:
I invite the NYDEC to comment to participate in communicating to New York Sportsmen as to what goes into the statistical modeling and factoring of yearly game harvest number estimates.
I will conclude by asking each of you to view this as trending data, not absolute. Hopefully, the folks at the NYSDEC will provide much more clarity to this and further explain the modeling and factoring that makes this a monitoring tool for the wild turkey resource we are so passionate about.
-MJ
© 2022
Mike Joyner- Joyner Outdoor Media
Estimated Wild Turkey Harvest Reports NY
With the ongoing concerns about the observable decline of wild turkey populations in the great Empire State, it is a timely exercise to take a look at the estimated harvest numbers. We’ll look at this by the statewide macro, all the way back before the observable peaks and what is considered by many to be the heyday of turkeys in nearly every place you might look for them. As a geeky engineer personality, I follow such statistics concerning our favored nemesis, including measurable trophy records. I ask that you consider this carefully from the macro view, as estimations rely on statistical modeling that bears true overall from large volumes of data rather than looking at widely varying micro-ecosystems. Before I dive into this further there is a list of precepts, assumptions, and points to make to take notice of and pay heed to before coming to any conclusions. The current topic of population decline is an emotional and often heated discussion full of finger-pointing and rife with blame and quick fixes. The purpose of this is to show how severe the decline is estimated to be.
Source data used:
The data from 1999 thru 2021 is sourced from NYSDEC webpages https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/30420.html, https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/30412.html Both pages are captured from previously published versions of the same links. Currently, active published links only go back to 2012.
NYSDEC data from 2006 thru 2021 is estimated harvest data.
https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/30420.html 2008 version published spring harvest data included both reported harvest and estimated harvest for 1999 thru 2005 no such comparison for the fall harvest is found in the search.
NYSDEC data from 1999 thru 2005 is estimated harvest data.
https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/30420.html 2008 version published spring harvest data included both reported harvest and estimated harvest for 1999 thru 2005 no such comparison for the fall harvest is found in the search.
The data from 1990 thru 1998 is sourced from NYSDEC webpages https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/30420.html, https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/30412.html Both pages are captured from previously published versions of the same links.
Precepts:
- All data used to create this is from NYSDEC published reports. All comments made here are not as a representative or authority of the NYSDEC or reviewed. Corrections, and or clarifications are sincerely welcomed to make this as accurate as feasibly possible.
- Estimation factors applied to reported harvest numbers are targeted to realistically represent poaching estimates, harvest reporting participation, and other factors identified by the NYSDEC. I would invite them to comment on what is involved in reaching estimation factors applied to each county.
- This is a macro statewide view. Anecdotally, each of us can cite absolute conclusions from our honey holes, the trash talk at the diners, conversations at the trail heads, etc. Managing the wildlife resource by region is the current method.
- Very few of us hunt more than a few counties any given season and even less are afield throughout the entire year. The extenuating factors to list by county much less by individual parcels, tracts of land are too many, too varied to digest well enough to rationally get a handle of the widespread landscape of decline. Such studies on micro ecosystems would take decades to complete and reach any consensus or actionable conclusions.
- The factors derived by the years 1999 through 2005 were averaged out by county and applied to estimate numbers for 1990 thru 1998. NYSDEC has not provided or published factors for these years. The peak factor numbers were not used in my calculations so as to not overstate the peak years. If such factoring data exists it would be much preferred
Observations:
- As the peak years are based only on derived averaged factoring, (1999-2005 Spring Season) it is a conservative estimate that the population is now roughly 20-25% of the peak population year. Some individual counties at first glance appear to be further declined. It will require correlation with license sales in those counties to validate that. What is sustainable year to year is not submitted or asserted here. It is far more complex than the harvest data thus far can suggest.
- The factoring spread among all NY counties (1999-2005 Spring Seasons) ranges from 2.65 to 7.40.
- The average spread among all NY counties (1999-2005 Spring Seasons) ranges from 4.06 to 5.71.
- The averaged factor among all NY counties = 4.57 (1999-2005 Spring Seasons)
- Translation- for every harvest reported. 3.57 turkeys across the Empire State were not reported or taken illegally. It is unclear as to what percentages or other contributors.
Comments:
I invite the NYDEC to comment to participate in communicating to New York Sportsmen as to what goes into the statistical modeling and factoring of yearly game harvest number estimates. Poaching of course is already illegal, over-harvest, etc. One thing each of us can control and improve as a group is the harvest reporting participation. 90-100% is possible. I can recall from NYSDEC -NY NWTF meetings during the change over from raw harvest data reporting to estimated harvest reporting, how low the harvest reporting participation was thought to be. I am a big fan of removing as much guessing as possible to improve the statistical modeling. With the population severely declining, how well does it bode to turn a blind eye to those we know that pile up a half dozen gobblers season after season before filling the first tag? It is not the primary reason for the decline but a contributing factor and hinders the ability to accurately model population trends, or stability.
We can do better. If we are to get a handle on the low-hanging fruit of root causes causing the population to decline, we need to get past this, what we can directly, and immediately control. This is a friendly reminder that as sportsmen, we do not require a state agency to self-regulate our own actions. I won’t implore that any of you adopt my personal ethics, but I would ask each of you to give pause/reservation to squeezing the trigger at your favored stomping grounds where you now only see one or two birds whereas you use to see fifteen or twenty in the spring. In far too many locations across the state, we make that choice on what may be the last remaining turkeys, in the field, on the hill. It may be some time to see them rebound, and there are too many places on my list that I’ll check on, but I am no longer willing to fill a tag there. This includes my own property. It is a most disheartening thing.
I will conclude by asking each of you to view this as trending data, not absolute, and is in a broad view of the entire New York wild turkey population. Hopefully, the folks at the NYSDEC will provide much more clarity to this and further explain the modeling and factoring that makes this a monitoring tool for the wild turkey resource we are so passionate about.
-MJ
© 2022
Mike Joyner- Joyner Outdoor Media
NYSDEC Proposed Changes to NY Wild Turkey Hunting Regulations
Two new regulation changes are being proposed to the landscape of wild turkey hunting regulations. In a nutshell, they are looking to include shot sizes as small as #9’s and add a spring turkey season to Suffolk County on Long Island. As always, your opinion only makes an impactful difference if you voice it directly to those crafting legislation and regulations.
I’ll state this bluntly- Responding in those never-ending echo chambers is a fool’s errand. Pause the back and forth chatter on social media and take a few minutes of your time to voice your support or opposition to proposed regulations. Public comment on these regulatory proposals runs through June 5, 2022.
Send your comments by email to wildliferegs@dec.ny.gov with “Proposed Turkey Regulations” in the subject line or mail to: Joshua Stiller, NYSDEC, 625 Broadway, Albany, NY 12233-4754.
https://www.dec.ny.gov/press/125107.html
As to the #9 shot, you get my thumbs up as long as it stipulates heavier/more dense than lead. As I read the regulation change, it does not. Hevi Shot and TSS loads are a huge upgrade to smaller than 12 gauge bores and with the right choke, deliver an ethical ballistic solution when reviewing comparative observation of expected pattern/energy on target. If proposed regulations opt only for TSS shot, it can be argued reasonably as it is yet heavier and denser than Hevi-13. I would recommend #9 shot in TSS for .410 shotguns as an optimal choice. My opinion however does not support or suggest the longer ranges that some promote.
Suffolk County has plenty of turkeys, and suitable habitats to hunt them. The downside is the access as much of it is private holdings. To those that have hunted and fished on Long Island, it is abundant in opportunities, but it is different. There are folks that are not opposed to hunting but do not want to see it directly. Discretion and sportsmen’s best behavior in these settings would be essential to the success of opening a season there. Much of the public access in Suffolk County is multi-use and well-used and you can be assured that those groups will voice their opinions without reservation.
You can find info on public grounds at https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/40399.html
The following is the currently proposed text:
6 NYCRR 1.40(c)(2) is amended as follows:
(2) Spring. A permittee may hunt wild turkey only during those open seasons and in
those wildlife management units (as described in section 4.1 of this Title) listed below.
Open season Wildlife management units
Closed 1A[, 1C] and 2A
May 1st to May 31st Rest of the State
6 NYCRR 1.40(d)(2) is amended as follows:
(2) Spring. A permittee may take:
(i) two bearded turkeys during the spring season as defined in paragraph (c)(2) of
this section; however
(ii) no more than one bearded turkey per day; and
(iii) no more than one bearded turkey in WMU 1C
6 NYCRR 1.40(f)(3) is amended as follows:
(3) A permittee may hunt turkey with a shotgun or handgun loaded with shot no larger
than number 2 and no smaller than number [8]9.
-MJ
© 2022 Mike Joyner- Joyner Outdoor Media
Nobody Hates a Turkey Hunter More Than…
Nobody Hates a Turkey Hunter More Than…
If you asked me this back when I began chasing gobblers three decades ago I might have answered: Anti Hunters, Vegetarians, maybe Bow Hunters during overlapping weeks in the fall season. In recent months we now have our own version of wildly indignant “Camo Karen’s” among our ranks. Very much like the popularized stereotype of the loud, overbearing, self-serving, and self-entitled suburbanite soccer moms except in camo, and inclusive of men, not to discriminate of course.
To answer the titled question in real time: “Nobody hates a turkey hunter more than another turkey hunter in my spot, tagging my birds”
What is observed to be fueling this enhanced discourse is the bickering, blaming and finger pointing over the significant decline in wild turkey populations in many states in the USA. One can argue the exact years, but I’ll put a stake in the ground that the mid to late 1990’s were peak years in Central New York, and early 2000’s in Northern New York. As found in natural science, you can expect some period of peaks and valleys to oscillate after a major peak in wildlife populations. Rather than stabilize after a decade from a major uptick in population, a down trend in many areas is something that we can agree on. This did not go unnoticed by our NYSDEC wildlife biologists in New York, or the NY NWTF Chapter.
Research has been conducted and continues to be on going with NYSDEC, SUNY ESF and in part funded by the NWTF, funds raised thru licenses and other sources. New York is not alone in this as other states have similar efforts and collectively looking to solve the overall decline and provide more accurate tools to manage the wildlife resource, more tightly manage regulations, bag limits, and harvest goals.
Camo Karen’s have been blasting all over social media what is justified to disparage and blame in their view for declining wild turkey populations. Here are a few examples that are rich in selfism, and envy of others:
- Fall seasons should have been closed long ago (no discussion on how spring seasons were not a valid season a century ago, turkey hunting use to be done only in the fall. Before their time therefore did not exist.)
- Shooting hens or bearded hens should never have been allowed in fall seasons. (never mind what wildlife biologists say can be sustainable or not.)
- TSS, Hevi Shot and other heavier than lead loads used to promote long range shots are unfair advantage and decimating turkey flocks.
- Nonresident hunting should have been draw only or not allowed all together. Resident hunters are entitled to “their turkeys” We should double, even triple the cost of NR licenses and reduce their bag limit to one bird only, no matter how many tags residents are allowed.
- Grand Slams, Royal Slams, World Slams, 49 State Slams, Washington State Slams, Canadian Slams, Mexican Slams and so on are solely responsible for over harvesting declining populations (as expressed there must be 100K+ turkey hunters traveling and committing gobbler genocide each spring.)
- Despite declining numbers of hunters overall, States should not be promoting hunting tourism, or paying outdoor TV shows or outdoor writers to promote hunting to bolster future generations of hunters. Greedy capitalism is to blame.
- TV outdoor shows filming hunts as nonresident hunters is a level up offense and single handedly responsible for population declines and causes resident hunters to put up with others shooting “their turkeys.” You Tubers are the scourge of the turkey hunting fraternity and cause of declining turkey populations
- Advertising of great public land locales through tourism practices, social media has single handedly ruined the sport and decimated these hunting grounds. Odd that I can recall hunting guide articles that came out every year that gave advice on where to hunt on WMA’s with the best odds of success since I started hunting in 1985. I recall reading similar articles in very old hunting magazines in hunting camp.
- Any and all modern use of decoys, GPS, google earth, TSS, reaping, fanning, rifles, etc. have made turkey hunting easy, unfair, and decimated the populations wherever used.
As a disclaimer, the claims, opinions are posted repeatedly in social media, not my own opinion. I do take issue with fanning, reaping, stalking as safety concerns, and long range shots for an ethical viewpoint. None of which I would consider responsible for mass decimation of turkey populations.
In perusing through so many of these utterances, one can reasonably conclude that the self-serving “Nobody Hates a Turkey Hunter More Than Another Turkey Hunter Within Eyesight Of Their Hunting Spot” is the probable motivation.
The current situation with declining numbers did not happen overnight, and as far back as I got into it and long before I started, wildlife research evolves, and especially so with the advancement of data collection technologies and methods. The predictive weather modeling tool for influences on brooding success came out in the late 1990’s as biologists were concerned how it might impact flocks after successful trap and transfer programs were winding down. Similar research on using satellite imaging data for modeling land use types was identified as a significant influence on turkey populations. Research continues on gobbling activity, predator impacts, how far turkeys move due to hunting pressure, causals of avian diseases, and more recently what percentage of all these factors are impacting the declines as a sort of super storm.
Hunting licenses, bag limits, length of seasons, legal hours, legal implements, and methods are all under the direct control of wildlife agencies. They require vetted data, and practical modeling tools to set hunting season particulars, not the anecdotal arm chair bravado that we hear or read so much of. There are some cases of politics dictating policy. We are much better off when that does not happen. The loss of quality sustainable habitat, disease, poor brooding conditions are significant detractors of wildlife populations that we have limited or no control over.
It is my opinion that it is human arrogance to think we have the ability to compete with Mother Nature in a managed and regulated hunting construct when it comes to the massive effects of cold wet spring weather, disease, and predation. Market hunting was abolished over a century ago. The past decade, my stomping grounds saw only a few decent brooding seasons, and we now have more avian predators, a never ending supply of coyotes, and fishers which recently have taken hold. Folks that I have given permission to trap our place no longer engage in the activity. In the end if we continue to witness years of cold wet springs causing second and third nestings and having no significant impact on predators, no hunting seasons changes we can come up with are going to revitalize turkey flocks.
We can directly improve micro habitats. A lot of that is going on, can agree that much more could go on? As hunters we can also take up trapping or invite, give permission for trappers to come in and reduce predator numbers, mitigate nest predation, and improve survivability of prey species in general as well as our beloved wild turkey.
How many of us tolerate known poaching, rationalize taking more than our limit for a variety of entitled reasons? Sure, we cannot control what others do, but it starts with each of us. Public lands in my county are under hunted, yet flocks are shrinking there. I travel much farther than I like to in the spring, and have not taken a fall bird in NY in years. I still check on the fall flocks, but refrain from filling a tag. Spots that would hold 50-80 birds in the past now have 5-15 maybe, some spots none at all. That is my personal choice. You may decide differently.
In closing, adjustments, corrections to hunting seasons, methods, bag limits etc, will be acted upon based on the work of wildlife biologists and the evolving science that comes from ongoing research. The Camo Karen’s will not be a positive voice among the influencers that they envy so much. It is a bad look for us as hunters and only serves to be consistent with the hostile division we see across our country in far too many aspects of our daily lives. I submit that we ought to avoid all that in our refuge in the turkey woods…
-MJ
© 2021 Mike Joyner- Joyner Outdoor Media
Good Luck To Youth Hunters- New York State 2021 Wild Turkey Youth Season
Good luck to all the youth hunters heading out for the 2021 Youth Spring Turkey Hunting Weekend. We hope you return safely from a great day chasing wild turkey gobblers that respond to your calls as loudly as your anticipation may allow. The sight of a strutting gobbler coming to your calls will be a lifelong memory. May you enjoy a memorable weekend afield with family and friends as each of you begin your journey of a life time of wonderful experiences in the great turkey woods of New York
Details: Spring Youth Hunt, April 24-25:
Accompanying adults must have a current hunting license and turkey permit. The adult may assist the youth hunter, including calling, but may not carry a firearm, bow, or crossbow or kill or attempt to kill a wild turkey during the youth hunt.
Youth hunters 12 to 15 years of age are eligible and must hold a hunting license and a turkey permit;
12 to 13 years of age must be accompanied by a parent, legal guardian, or adult over 21 years of age with written permission from their parent or legal guardian. Youth 14 to 15 years of age must be accompanied by a parent, legal guardian, or adult over 18 years of age with written permission from their parent or legal guardian.
Shooting hours are from one-half hour before sunrise to noon Saturday, an Sunday.
The youth turkey hunt is open in all parts of Upstate New York, north of the Bronx-Westchester County boundary, and in Suffolk County.
The bag limit for the youth weekend is one bearded bird. This bird becomes part of the youth’s regular spring season bag limit of two bearded birds. A second bird may be taken only in Upstate New York, north of the Bronx-Westchester County boundary, beginning May 1.
Crossbows may only be used by hunters 14 or older. In Suffolk and Westchester counties it is illegal to use a crossbow to hunt wild turkeys.
All other wild turkey hunting regulations remain in effect.
Successful youth hunters must report their harvest within seven days of taking a bird. Call 1-866-426-3778 (1-866 GAMERPT) or report harvest online at DEC’s Game Harvest Reporting website. https://decals.licensing.east.kalkomey.com/
For more information about youth turkey hunting in New York, see the 2020-2021 Hunting and Trapping Regulations Guide or visit: https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/27836.html
-MJ
© 2021 Mike Joyner- Joyner Outdoor Media
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Hook, Line and Gobble Safari In Oswego County, New York
Sixteen outdoor writers from the New York Outdoor Writers Association trekked to Selkirk Shores State Park in Oswego County to attend the 2018 Spring Safari May 17th-20th. The area is well known for the annual salmon run each fall which brings tens of thousands of anglers to the area. If you are at all familiar with Oswego County, spent time there as we all did during the safari we would agree that the area offers so much more in outdoor pursuits, attractions, eateries and is a ‘must do’ destination for anyone who enjoys the great outdoors.
Our accommodations were modern cabins within the state park which served us well and doubled as a base of operations. Thursday night was a meet and greet hosted by the Oswego County Tourism Office where we all got to meet up and connect personally with all those we converse with on a frequent basis . After enjoying a great spread of appetizers, and getting to finally meet everyone, we do as we always do and draw up the battle plans for the first full day of fishing, turkey hunting, and hiking. Our get-togethers are always fun as being writers we all can tell some great stories as expected.
Friday morning we paired up to embark on an assault on Deer Creek game lands and see what gobblers we could get on to. There were guides to be on hand for Saturday’s hunt for some of the writers. We would be hunting on our own. NYSOWA members Ed Noonan and Steve Zahurak would pair up and go after birds they had heard gobble back at them while roosting Thursday night. Fellow member Dan Ladd and I would start out on the other side of the game lands about a mile north of Ed and Steve. We were greeted with a beautiful sunny morning with calm winds and with a well-animated conversation with two owls. Nothing gobbled or hen talked on the roost, even after fly down time and the crows raising a ruckus, no wild turkeys would reveal their presence to us. We were too far away to hear Ed or Steve call despite it being very calm. The foliage was fully out by then. We were confident we could hear either of them shoot, and fully expected they would as Ed is known to make quick work of it and if he had his way, so would Steve. The first hour passed and a shot never rang out although we expected otherwise. We would learn later that a pair of jakes did come in, and they passed them up as they were looking for adult gobblers.
Dan who is an ardent and accomplished Adirondack deer hunter is slowly being challenged at my bidding to become a solely devoted turkey hunter, at least to a measurable degree. Dan’s instincts apply well to the spring season and rather than march back to the truck and run off to the next spot, we took our time to walk more of it and survey the place on foot rather than relying on what we had looked at with google earth. It is a fantastic tool for previewing a new territory to hunt. We sat down in the woods off from the fields at a spot that screamed out to the both of us as being a perfect place set tree stands for the fall archery season. We sat down on a log and got to talking for a bit. We had made a few calls as we trolled to the spot we were at and it paid off as our conversation was abruptly cut off by a raucous gobble not more than a hundred and fifty to two hundred yards away.
With a quick scramble Dan sat up just a bit from where we sat facing where the gobbler was coming from, and I dropped back twenty-five yards in the hope of drawing him in. While the gobbler might hang up on my calling as they instinctively do, it would be well within range for Dan. A few soft calls indicated the bird would be headed to an open area in front of Dan and his gobble was loud and impressive. I thought Dan would have him in his lap until I saw a bright flash along the edge of the field to my right. The gobbler decided to sneak around and flank us. Once I saw the flash of the top of the gobbler’s head, I positioned my barrel as he went behind some brush while heading to the next opening. Once he cleared that he would have a full view of us, and making a move would be an alarm put and exit stage right. Didn’t go as planned but the report of my 12 gauge stopped him from a hasty exit. A dandy three-year gobbler and tipped the scales just shy of twenty-two pounds.
Once we got some nice pictures taken we headed out to two other state game lands towards Pulaski. At our third setup another gobbler came in by me, but a full sixty yards behind Dan. Never gobbled, but strutted and drummed. Well within my range but my turkey gun was packed snuggly in its case. The bird taken early that morning was the second tag for me which had both of my gobblers taken on state game lands this season, with the first tagged on the 13th. New York allows only one per day. The mission at hand was to get Dan onto a willing gobbler. Close but no cigar as the gobbler walked off without incident and the clock ran out.
We were then treated to a luncheon at Douglaston Salmon Run and a presentation on the history and current programs implemented there. The afternoon had multiple offerings of a guided mushroom foraging/edible plant outdoor class, canoeing, hiking to the scenic Salmon River Falls, fishing at Douglaston Salmon Run with a guide, and a tour of the DEC’s fish hatchery / Salmon River Fishing Museum in Altmar. Something for everyone in our group.
Our evening function was held at Tailwater Lodge in Altmar. A world-class facility and perfect accommodations for those visiting the region not only for the internationally known fisheries and fishing opportunities but also for weddings and corporate events. Along with a great meal that we enjoyed there, they also feature a tasting room with a wide selection of microbrewery offerings as well as New York wines which my wife and I both are great fans of. A great destination for anniversaries and other special family events as well.
Saturday’s morning excursion had me joining fellow outdoor writer David Barus and local reporter Matthew Reitz from the Palladium Times. We would head out and fish from the Harbor in Oswego with Capt. Chad Gehrig, Son of a Gun charter service. We would be fishing for Brown Trout on Lake Ontario. A fantastic morning of fishing! With the rains creeping in, the fishing only got more intense and we would limit out on Brown’s by 7:45 AM. At times we had three fish on at once! We were landing Brown’s in the three to five pound range. Excellent table fare as my wife will attest to.
Our experience is very much the same as other writers had on Friday. I do plan to enjoy more fishing with Chad this summer. It is a unanimous opinion amongst our group that all the guides we had over the course of the event were outstanding and made for a very memorable safari. I have each of them listed at the bottom and wouldn’t hesitate to book a trip with any of them.
Several gobblers were tagged on Saturday, and despite the inclement weather they all had turkeys in view making for a great morning the turkey woods. Saturday afternoon also had multiple offerings of canoeing, kayaking. fishing at Douglaston Salmon Run, and a tour of the DEC’s fish hatchery / Salmon River Fishing Museum in Altmar. Plenty of fun activities. The evening event was held back at our base of operations and included a great BBQ meal to top off a great two days of hunting and fishing. Sunday was open for those that wanted to turkey hunt or fish on their own. I headed out early for a long car trip to Maine for a three day turkey hunt.
The Safari was organized by Dave Figrura, our Safari Chairman, in conjunction with the Oswego County Tourism Office. With a lot of activities planned over the course of several days, it was made to look flawless and easy despite so many moving parts to keep track of. A big thank you goes out to Dave, and to Janet Clerkin, Tourism & Public Information Coordinator; Dave Turner, Director, and the rest of the staff at the Oswego County Tourism Office for a great effort in putting it all together.
A big round of thank you’s is in order for so many that went above and beyond to make for a great event and a memorable weekend in a destination spot that confirms my opinion of New York being one of the best states in the union for hunting, fishing and a wide range of outdoor recreation. I personally recommend visiting or booking an event or outing with all of these folks as they are top notch at what they do, and you’ll be glad you did. My wife and I will be returning in the near future for just that reason.
2018 NYSOWA Spring Safari Sponsors:
* Oswego County Federation of Sportsman Clubs, http://www.oswegocountysportsmen.com
* Oswego County Department of Community Development & Tourism, http://www.visitoswegocounty.com (315) 349-8322
* Douglaston Salmon Run, http://www.douglastonsalmonrun.com (315) 298-6672
* Liberty Vinyards & Winery, http://libertywinery.com/ (716) 672-4520
2018 NYSOWA Spring Safari Hosts:
*Selkirk Shores State Park, https://parks.ny.gov/parks/84/details.aspx (315) 298-5737
*Tailwater Lodge, https://tailwaterlodge.com (315) 298-3434
*Salmon River International Sportfishing Museum, http://www.pulaskifishingmuseum.org/
*NYS DEC Salmon River Fish Hatchery, http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/21663.html (315) 298-5051
2018 NYSOWA Spring Safari Turkey Hunting Guides:
*Stanley Ouellette, Deer Creek Outfitters, http://www.deercreekny.com/fishing-and-hunting-guides/ (315) 298-3730
*Ryan Gilbert, Deer Creek Outfitters, http://www.deercreekny.com/fishing-and-hunting-guides/ (315) 298-3730
*Bill Wilbur, president, Salmon River chapter, National Wild Turkey Federation, http://www.nynwtf.org/salmon-river (315) 963-3368
2018 NYSOWA Spring Safari Fishing Charters:
*Capt. Dave Silver, Reel Silver Charters: http://www.reelsilvercharters.com/; reelsilver@twcny.rr.com; (315) 271-8773
*Capt. Troy Creasy, High Adventure Charters: https://www.highadventurefishing.com/ (315) 243-2389
*Capt. Zack Rayno, Cold Steel Sportfishing: http://coldsteelsportfishing.com/ (315) 243-2389
*Capt. Chad Gehrig, Son of a Gun charter: https://www.kgsportfishing.com/ (315) 343-8171
2018 NYSOWA Spring Safari Hiking, Foraging Guide:
*Roy Reehil, author, forager 315-675-3625; roy@reehil.com
-MJ
© 2018 Mike Joyner- Joyner Outdoor Media
#turkeyhunting #fishing #Oswego #NYSOWA #lakeontario
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